While in the big picture, all those issues you brought up are good topics for debate, I think the focus of the Terri Schiavo case needs to be on Michael Schiavo. Forget the medical debates about PVS that happened post-1992, forget the debates of Legislative Branch vs Judicial Branch, forget "right to die" vs "right to life". This case started in 1993 after Michael Schiavo won the malpractice suits and was awarded $1+ Million, which was supposed to go towards the medical treatment, therapy and rehabilitation of Terri Schiavo. However, instead of that money going to Terri's medical treatment, in February of 1993, less than 6 months after winning the suits, Michael started working on having Terri die. He also denied Terri's parents access to her medical records. He also never mentioned that Terri wanted to be allowed to die, if ever in a state such as this, until AFTER a law was passed in 2000 allowing hearsay as valid testimony. This testimony was then used by Judge Greer and clear and convincing evidence that Terri would want to die.

Do you people understand all that? This is what this case is revolving about. This man Michael Schiavo's testimony 10 years later. And his lack of providing Terri any medical treatment which he was supposed to have given her using the money from the malpractice suits.

The debates on laws and politics and government need to be put aside and due focus needs to be put on Michael Schiavo. We need to stop allowing the debate to be sidetracked to all these other issues. Michael Schiavo is the case. And investigation needs to be started into him. MRI/PET scans need to be conducted on Terri and investigations into the allegations of abuse and possible strangulation need to be started as well. Those in support of Terri cannot get sidetracked in the debate by debating Judges vs Congress and such. Focus. Focus. Focus. Michael Schiavo's actions need to be investigated.

Also, if a MRI exam and a PET scan are both conducted on Terri and they show that she is in a PVS, then I would be for "putting her to sleep" in some humane way. Starving her to death should be cruel and unusual punishment. We wouldn't put terrorists, murderers, child molestors or animals through starvation, why an innocent woman?

Mark, you're as fast as I am on the posts. ;)

Last time I jumped up and down like that in my livingroom, the Packers won the Superbowl.

That being said, I think there needs to be VERY clear laws regarding who can make these types of decisions. For instance, in the absence of legal documents stating the intent of the patient, there should be at least a corroboration rule. Make a "reasonable person" standard for it - Would a "reasonable" person say that Mr. Smith had adequately and to more than one person, intimated a desire to die in this situation?

What Michael Schiavo is doing is murder, yes. But what I find interesting is the sheer arrogance of his stance; the assumption that the American public actually buys his martyred act of a loving, devoted husband who is just trying to see his wife's wishes carried out. That alone tells me that there's something wrong...but then again, the multiple broken bones kind of tipped me off long ago.

Sorry, Mark - I'm ranting. Between C-Span's Schiavo coverage and NBC Dateline's Pantano coverage, I'm riding the rant train bigtime today. ;)

Oh, and Michael in MI...love your comments. Nice to see there's really intelligent life in MI besides me. ;)

"This testimony was then used by Judge Greer and clear and convincing evidence that Terri would want to die."

This should read "This testimony was then used...AS clear and convincing evidence..."

Kit,

OT: You blogged about Pantano recently?

You and Michael seem on the same page; I'm rather disgusted with Mr. Schiavo, too - there's something very disgusting about a man who views his marriage vows as he does...until death do we part, unless you become inconveniently sick.

This elements does, perhaps, need to be looked into; I wonder if a criminal investigation ever was launched?

Kit Lange - It's great to see your comments as well. And yes there is some intelligent life in Michigan. :) Even more impressive should be the fact that I am in the unfortunately, extremely Blue county of Wayne. That red dot on your map of Detroit isn't a stray mark, it's me trying to infect this area in a good way.

Mark - I am not sure if a criminal investigation was launched or not. But from everything I am finding on The Empire Journal site, it seems there is a whole lotta corruption going on down there in Florida with regards to this case.

I also have been irritated with the whole situation with Michael living in sin with his "girlfriend" and having 2 children with her. The vows are "until death do us part." If Terri is not dead, then he has broken his vows to her. If she is dead, then why is there a debate? Unhook her, wrap her up and send her to the morgue tomorrow morning and then to the oven to be creamated tomorrow afternoon. The fact is, she is not dead, and he is not a devoted husband. He is a cheating bastard whose integrity and credibility in this case are nil. Yet, his word that she wanted to die is what is being used by the courts and the media as "clear and convincing" evidence. It's disgusting.

You know what some slick lawyer should do? Cut Michael off as guardian based on his infidelity in the marriage and have Terri divorce him. I'm sure someone could give testimony that based on Terri's Catholic upbringing, she talked about divorcing her husband if he ever cheated on her. Michael Schiavo has broken his vows of marriage, so the marriage should be terminated. There has got to be some kind of technicality on which a lawsuit for divorce can be based. That would be quite an interesting turn of events. However, I'm sure the Schindlers have looked into a way for Terri to divorce him and probably were not successful.

Let me put another wrench in things here. I wonder if a savvy lawyer could help the Schindlers use this as grounds for Terri to divorce Michael. If Terri can divorce Michael, he no longer would have a say in whether she lives or dies:

798.01. Living in open adultery

Whoever lives in an open state of adultery shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. Where either of the parties living in an open state of adultery is married, both parties so living shall be deemed to be guilty of the offense provided for in this section.

(b) For a misdemeanor of the second degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 60 days.

According to this, both Michael Schiavo and his "girlfriend" are guilty of a misdemeanor. Why haven't they been brought up on charges? Does anyone know if Michael Schiavo has served any time for living in open adultery? Also, it says that in lieu of serving time, the adulterers may pay a fine. Anyone know if any fine was paid using Terri Shiavo's medical malpractice money?

If anyone wants to see what a loving husband, support and rehabilitation can do for someone in similar condition to Terri Schiavo, please go here:

Kate Adamson Triumphed Over Adversity

Michael,

Is that a FL law? If so, then we don't want to prosecute, but it can be grounds for a divorce; I wonder if annulment is possible?

Mark - Yes, that is Florida Law. I'm not a lawyer, so I would not know how to go about a divorce or annulment using that law, but it is the law of Florida and both Michael and his girlfriend are committing a 2nd degree misdemeanor by openly committing adultery.

By the way, why wouldn't someone want to bring up Michael and his girlfriend on charges of adultery?

Michael,

Bad press; the Culture of Death would latch on to it and make that the issue....

Would living wills and a DNR protect a person if the goverment now decides to involve themselves in family matters?
Could not these documents now be challenged?

terri's case is a matter of two issues. one being the right to die with dignity/right to life. the other issue is michael schiavo. if terri dies at the end of this, that will close the first issue. the facts in the second issue should not die with terri - michael shouldn't be able to bury any culpability with terri. there are a lot of charges being made on both sides. newsmax had an article alluding to the idea that terri was able to be spoon fed in 1997 but schiavo demanded that she be fed through a tube. if the truth of terri validates the votes of frank or wasserman, so be it. if not, they are as culpable as schiavo.

"If the govt now decides to involve its self in family matters"??

I believe the legislatures are leaving intact the dnr's and living wills,however Terri never had one except through scott peterson....(OOPS silly me) michael's statements which are highly suspect.

What is marriage??
What is education??
What is divorce??
What is spousal or child abuse??
What is murder??
What is "gay marriage"??
What is adultry??

I believe these laws reflect fascits of govt. involvement in our family.

A man and a pro death lawyer with an agenda seeks to KILL this woman by starving her to death in a "hospice" which he has financial ties to.
If our govt. doesnt intervene then the people will, and our elected leaders will be at the risk of becoming unemployed next election.

Would living wills and a DNR protect a person if the goverment now decides to involve themselves in family matters?

Yes.

Could not these documents now be challenged?

No.

Michael in MI

I've been reading all your posts here and at B4B - again, thank you! Have you read anywhere that Michael Schiavo also had both his parents on feeding tubes and then had the feeding tubes removed?

I read it on a post over at BlogsforTerri, I think, but there was no link to the information.

"Would living wills and a DNR protect a person if the goverment now decides to involve themselves in family matters?"

Bubbi -- If Terri Schiavo had a living will stating that she would not want to be kept alive in her current state, the government would not step in and intervene. The whole reason that this case has become an issue for corruption and necessitates a need for Congressional intervention is because Terri did not have a living will and the court made a decision about her wishes based on the word of a man who has zero credibility and zero integrity. If she had something in writing and it was proven that she was in a PVS, this case would have been over years ago.

"terri's case is a matter of two issues...."

peggie -- I respectfully disagree. I believe the issues are 1) Michael Schiavo and 2) Right to Life/Die. The reason being that we possibly would not be discussing Terri's right to life/die if Michael Schiavo had given Terri the proper therapy and rehabilitation recommended by the courts back in 1992. In the past 13 years, Terri has not received any therapy or rehabilitation to improve her condition. In April of 1991, she was diagnosed as "improving". Yet since that point, she has not received any treatment and since the lawsuit money was awarded in August 1992, Michael Schiavo has denied any treatment for Terri, despite the fact that the money he won in the lawsuits was supposed to go to her medical care. It hasn't. Almost all the money has gone to pay for Michael Schiavo's lawyers.

So I don't agree that the primary issue is "right to life/die", although that is what the media and those on the side of Michael Schiavo are making it out to be. Think about it. Would Terri Schiavo be in this bad condition had Michael Schiavo provided the necessary therapy and rehabilitation for her? There is a good chance that she would have improved by now. The first issue that we need to get to the bottom of is Michael Schiavo and why he did certain things early on in the case of Terri. Why didn't he give her the recommended therapy and rebabilitation? Why did he have a falling out with the parents after the malpractice lawsuits? Why did he not use the malpractice money on Terri's medical care? Does he have some medical information on Terri from the years 1992-1993 which would prove that she was diagnosed as PVS and beyond the help of therapy and rehabilitation?

Once these questions are answered, it will lead us to the correct decision in the issue of Terri's right to life/die. If all the answers to those questions back up Michael Schiavo, then the issue turns to how to allow Terri to die in a humane manner, free of pain and suffering. However, if the answers to those questions implicate Michael Schiavo in a coverup and/or a more sinister motive, then the focus of this case needs to be a full fledged investigation of Michael Schiavo, starting with removing him as the guardian of Terri Schiavo.

ExMarine wrote:

If our govt. doesnt intervene then the people will, and our elected leaders will be at the risk of becoming unemployed next election.

Yes, and all those who either voted NO on this law or who didn't show up without a damn good reason had better be ready to return to civilian life!

Worth reading at the Empire Journal (may have already been linked - sorry):

"As Terri Schiavo starves to death, it is time to alert more lawmakers to the truth: the wrong person is being "punished" for Terri Schiavo's current state," says Carole Lieberman, M.D. a Board Certified Psychiatrist on the Clinical Faculty of UCLA. Having interviewed Terri's father on her radio show ("Dr. Carole's Couch" on voiceamerica.com), Dr. Lieberman uncovered the fact that Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, fits the profile of a wife-abuser "the same profile that fit O.J. Simpson and Scott Peterson..."

http://www.theempirejournal.com/03200508_terri_schiavo.htm

I posted that yesterday on here, Virginia, but I think all of the info on The Empire Journal needs to get out in a blogswarm (or whatever the heck they are called). People need to read the facts of this case, not debate federal vs states, right to life vs right to die, etc. One cannot debate this case intelligently if one does not know all the facts. That is the main problem right now. People are looking at this case in a years 2000-2005 mentality and forget that this has been going on since 1990. The Empire Journal site has so much information. Their site was even hacked to prevent some of it from getting out to the public.

Michael Schiavo Fits Profile of Abuser

I suggest everyone check out The Empire Journal site and read up on the facts of the case.

Key Documents in Terri Schiavo Case

Take special note of Document #22.

"When is that B*tch gonna die?"

I'm in a little bit of a time pinch, so I apologize for not investigating this and posting links/references. I believe it is on the timeline on the Terri's fight website, but it mentions that at one point very early on, Terri had an independant guardian ad litem (may have been called a Trustee). The information I recall said that Judge Greer terminated this person after they brought up Michael's infidelity in open court. Judge Greer has never appointed a replacement.

IOW, the only way for Terri to divorce Michael would be for her to have a Court appointed guardian begin the process. Judge Greer has made it so that no such person has existed. Go figure...

I'm a bit unclear as to what the law passed last night allows. I would hope it would allow the Schindler's the standing to file a new lawsuit in Federal Court that would address ALL the issues that Judge Greer has glossed over and/or ignored over the years.

Apparently, Judge Greer is serving as Terri's "guardian" which is illegal:

Why didn�t the court appoint a guardian other than Terri�s husband to speak for her?

The trial judge could have utilized a guardian ad litem as a neutral party to speak for Terri, but in the end the trial judge did not do so. The Second District affirmed this decision and explained its rationale in this way:

Under these circumstances, the two parties, as adversaries, present their evidence to the trial court. The trial court determines whether the evidence is sufficient to allow it to make the decision for the ward to discontinue life support. In this context, the trial court essentially serves as the ward's guardian. Although we do not rule out the occasional need for a guardian in this type of proceeding, a guardian ad litem would tend to duplicate the function of the judge, would add little of value to this process, and might cause the process to be influenced by hearsay or matters outside the record. Accordingly, we affirm the trial court's discretionary decision in this case to proceed without a guardian ad litem.

Mark:

OT: Yes, at the advice of a few lawyers, I did post about Coburn's running off at the mouth on my blog. Apparently, in a civil criminal trial, that could result in a mistrial for Pantano. I'm not sure what the repercussions would be at an Article 32 hearing, but in this case I wanted to err on the side of safety. I'd much rather blow the whistle for nothing than wonder forever after if it could have helped.

Sorry about the long-windedness off-topic.

OT: Michael in MI: I'm in Flint. I feel your pain. I think I'm the only employed person in a 5-mile radius. ;)

Back to Terri Schiavo:

I think another problem here is the massive amounts of information that the MSM is putting out that's just WRONG. If I had a dime for every time I saw the phrases "persistent vegetative state", or "heart attack from a chemical imbalance", I think I could stop saving for my 7-year-old's education.

I think it just goes to show how "sheep-like" the general public is. It's amazing how many people don't know anything at all about this case, and sad how many of those who "know something" are full of the wrong information. I am reminded yet again of the importance of people like us, getting the word out, literally keeping it in the face of those who would prefer to accept the bottled, processed version that says "Terri's a vegetable, it's a private matter, leave it alone."

No, DON'T leave it alone. Get a pair of cojones, pull your head out of the sand, and realize that sometimes, you have to stop riding the fence and take a stand on the grass.

I WAS a democrat not now after I heard the speeches on the house floor last nite. I was ashamed to be a Democrat. Terri schiavo is a living person who was injured by her abusive husband who now wants her dead for a variety of reasons and he wants and so far getting the courts to do it for him since he failed to do it in the begining. A full criminal investigation must be started. But first her feeding tube needs to be reinserted. She needs a guardian ad lidum and she must have her own attorney. Really you must go all the way back and a complete investigation to be through. Throw out all the past to this point. A feeding tube is not extra life saving measure, it is only a tube into which ensure a drink that is a supplement put into the tube with either a small pitcher with a pointed lip to pour slowly into it that slowly goes into the tummy , or a large syringe to do rhw same thing. But she can swallow with thickners in the water and in the begining she was being fed with a spoon inthis manner and he said no. To put in the tube. Also he will not allow any photos or video to be taken because she doesn't look or act that way we've seen on t.v. I am proud of Bush to try to help her it really does show how much he cares. I think though he could trump these courts and just like for a prisoner on death row he could give her a full pardon and give custoday to her parents and have her so called husband fully investigated. It would make his numbers to soar and help in history too. Any way I am proud of the GOP for stepping up to the plate when needed.

As much as the Dems are to blame for their shameful behavior and delaying the vote in Congress, even more shameful is what the Florida Senate did with the help of 9 Republicans. If Jim King and his witless band of 8 had not voted against the bill that was presented to the Fl. Senate, Terry's feeding tube would have not have even been removed. I expect such behavior from Dems, but this is a disgrace for a pro-life party. I'm ashamed of them and will do everything I can to make them pay politically if she dies.

What real evidence is there to say Michael abused Teri? I read the NA statement and what she did with the ice chips etc... is standard procedure to keep the swallow mechanism vaiable so she would not aspirate on her saliva. I have said it all along--I have no doubt Teri can be fed and should be. Most of the time--feeding tubes are used because of the time facter in feeding and staffing issues.

I do not agree with what Michael is doing as far as no food or water--I want to make that clear.

I am just wondering how it can be asserted with out a doubt that he is quilty of abuse? The first year would have been the most critical--the hospitals and nursing homes are staffed with nurses aides and social workers--at that time therapy was being given--if there was evidence of abuse and Teri was speaking short sentences--how come the finger was not pointed? Or was it? If so could you direct me there?

Maybe I am to sensitve about this. I am disabled and home bound after 30 yrs of caring for people that are disabled.
I have a living will--I guess I fear that being challenged if someone decides they can not let go.
Sorry--I wont say more on this.