You know what kind of parents voted against Prop 93...good parents who have great relationships with their kids, and don't need the government interferring in their family relationships.

It would seem that neoCons aren't serious about getting the government off our backs, but wish to intrude into every private decision....

What is REALLY upsetting is the fact that we kick Davis out of Office, Elect Arnie, then give him NO SUPPORT for the very reasons we Elected him.

What am I missing here? Where is the BASIC COMMON SENSE?? I won't even get into Prop 73. That is a disgrace.

For me, 2010 is the year I leave this great State. My son will be 20 and on his own (maybe) and I will have to find another place with great Beaches and plenty of Golf, possibly North or South Carolina.

That said, I don't see how Arnie can run next year. Why would he want to? The majority will not support him. If I had to blame anyone, it is the CA GOP, which is NON EXISTANT in this state. I have been saying this for YEARS and I am tired of beating a dead horse.

Such a shame. At least my house is way over priced. I will make a killing.

like most democrats, california loves to vote NO on everything republican even if it takes away their parental right.

Matt,
The parents in California LOVE their children. You should not question otherwise. The vote yesterday does not take any rights away from close and loving families. It does protect the children of troubled and abusive families. Anyways, I'm not sure if this has been rejected our not...too close to call. But I am SO thankful that I am a Californian. I am even MORE thankful that you are not!

And how many pregnant 9 year olds are there...I am sure they are the victims of evangelical sponsored child rape(see, if you use hyperbole, so will I). Maybe you should look at Florida where the state said it DID NOT have a right to force a 12 year old to give birth!

Nano, these decisions about choice are private within the family. I would never want any medical procedure done on my child without my notification. As long as the law says that a parent/guardian is responsible for a child until 18 years of age, a parent has the right to know.

Ernie, I agree with you. Arnie got no help out here. The legislature may as well not even meet since they don't do a darned thing. They are totally unproductive. No changes, more of the same, spend, spend, spend. The local conservative talk radio program today was saying how it is only a matter of time before the unions put together an initiative to repeal Prop. 13. If that happens, watch your property taxes increase X% really soon (much like the short lived Gray Davis car registration increase). Sad day in CA indeed.

OH - it is a great day in CA, sunny, warm and you got your a** kicked! if you don't like the results. MOVE to a red state, like texas or kansas. please.

"What is REALLY upsetting is the fact that we kick Davis out of Office, Elect Arnie, then give him NO SUPPORT for the very reasons we Elected him."

They kicked Davis out for excessive campaign fundraising - with connections to policy. Now Arnold has exceeded even Davis in the same game. Voters are not blond.

But this was a "special" election. Arnold declared that the issues were too urgent to wait for the March election just around the corner, so the state had to cough up $60 million to pay for another election. Most people understood it was a trick to give the Republicans an opportunity to get their faithful to the polls when there were no other issues to drive regular voters to the polls.

On top of that was one initiative to basically give billions to drug companies for nothing - siilar to Bush's prescription drug program. And the drug companies spent OVER $160 MILLION on that!!!

So there was a big movement in California to show up and vote no one everything just to show them that they shouldn't try to jerk us around like that.

So this wasn't necessarily a win for Democrats as uch as a rejection by the voters of tricks jerking them around.

I'm a poll worker, and I can tell you that the Republicans voting in my precinct were just as pissed off as the Dems - many saying they were voting no just for those reasons.

Oops. That's blind. SOME voters ARE blond.

Matt,

The comments section should tell you all you need to know about the state of California and its politics. The same state in which one of its largest cities voted overwhelmingly to ban handguns in houses and businesses. The same state where only 17% of the voters in largely Republican Orange County turned out to vote. The same state in which the GOP is possibly the most inept state GOP in the country.

The bottom line is we have a problem. A problem at not only the local and state level but more importantly at the national level. I would not want to be a Republican running for re-election or a Republican sponsored ballot proposition in 2006. I don't have any answers but am frustrated and extremely disappointed at what has been a huge missed opportunity for our party and our President to capitalize on the hard work and commitment shown by all of us in 2004.

Just so you know, the money the Drug Co.'s spent was both AGAINST Arnold's plan, which would require them to offer low-cost drugs, and FOR a plan of their own that didnt make low-cost drugs mandatory...

I'm very proud of fellow Californians for rebuking Schwarzeneggar.

He's hardly someone the people really 'chose' - the process was a mess.

Hundreds of candidates, the only way to win was for the candidate with name recognition and $.

It was hardly about the issues - a reason why Arnold refused to participate in all but the last debate while all of the other 'leading' candidates did hold many debates to discuss issues.

"Just so you know, the money the Drug Co.'s spent was both AGAINST Arnold's plan, which would require them to offer low-cost drugs, and FOR a plan of their own that didnt make low-cost drugs mandatory..."

Arnold did not have a drug plan on the ballot as I understand - Prop 79 was a more generous plan for drugs for the poor, and the drug companies spent something like $60 or $80 million to campaign for their own alternative, prop 78, and oppose 79.

The drug company side outspent the other side 412 to 1, Common Cause said.

Now, guess who really pays for that $60 million political campaign?

We need campaign finance reform. Corporations do not deserve the same rights as citizens.

If you read the initiative you might realize why many people would vote against it. Once again the right wing has been led astray by the far right wing. Read the definition of pregnancy and then decide if the parents voted against their rights or the "care for the unborn, don't care for the born" faction of the Republican party.

right, you are soooo concerned about safe seats for incumbents. where were you during the texas gerrymandering exactly?

"To make things worse, they also rejected parental notification for minors seeking abortions..."

Yeah, I can see these minors, pregnant as a result of incest, having to ask their "Christian" daddy for his permission...

Why can't cons just lose one and not complain about it?

You lost. Accept it.

Devil's Advocate... A minor is anyone under the age of 18... so let's be honest.. this law would have largely applied to teenagers who got pregnant from consensual sex.

Also, if you read the damned thing, you'd see there was an option include for a waiver... so let's stop pretending that incest cases is a legit reason for voting down that proposition.

The farce of the California election is that Arnold was bought by the Kenny Lay cabal in May of 2001-- before they ran him against Davis. The state's budget deficit could be seriously addressed if instead of these "budget caps" initiatives, Ahnode would simply pursue the lawsuit Davis and Cruz Bustamante instigated with FERC against the boys at Enron. The manipulations of the power market cost Californians in excess 9B spondoolicks a few years back, and now the taxpayers are supposed to pay for it.

But Ahnold won't.

The statute of limitations on the lawsuit runs out, Kenny gets to keep his five houses in Aspen, and somewhere in a bank in darkest Switzerland, a billion or so is likely lying waiting for a faded B movie actor and his Skeletor wife (sound familiar?) to claim their due-- courtesy of an ill-educated electorate stoopid enough to fall for his glitz.

I voted for his initiatives because outrageously bloated "service" sector pensions and illegal immigration are gutting what's left of our state treasury. But that doesn't mean he's not still a skank.

Sorry you're so incensed about the abortion thing. But frankly, if a kid is old enough to get pregnant by accident, it's none of your business. And if it's not by choice, chances are one of the parents is involved anyway. Unless you're willing to personally feed, clothe, house, medicate, and educate the unwanted fetuses, you might want to keep your mouth shut. Just because YOU do the god thing doesn't mean the rest of us have to believe in your easter bunny.

ta.
ahansen
soccer mom/gun nut

Just to clarify this abortion notification initiative, it gave no right for a parent to make a choice for the pregnant child. All it said was that you have to notify the parent/guardian 48 hours (I think) prior to going through with the abortion. Also, the handgun intiative in San Francisco actually says that if you currently own a handgun, you have to turn it in by April. Isn't there something in the Constitution about that? Hmmmmmmm

Most pregnant 9 yr olds aren't having periods, how are they going to have reproductive freedom if they can't reproduce.

Way to take a potentially reasonable argument & shoot it in the foot.

Avoid making statements that are unlikely to be taken seriously if you expect to have a resasonable discourse.

I am puzzled by the Lefties who post here that they are glad the props lost. 74 was an education prop, designed to make teachers EARN ther Tenure. 75 was for unions to get permission from union members on how to spend thier dues. 76 was a sane budget proposal, and 77 was a boom for Dems and Repubs alike. These defeats HURT the State. Your blind hatred for "everything Republican" hurts you and me. The partisan crap has got to stop. The State is headed for more peril when in 5, 10 years the Pensions start mounting for CALPERS and the Unions. Personally, I will not be around.

As for Prop 73, it was notification only, not for permission.

A child has to go to a Doc for the Abortion, all this would do is grant a 48 hour cusion. If the child was afraid of their parents, a judge would convene a hearing (within said 48 hrs) and if the facts are the parents are dangerous, the Judge grants the Abortion. The parents do not decide, they are just notified.
A little girl who is thirteen cannot get her ears pierced, a tatoo, or take an aspirin in school without parental APPROVAL, this was just to notify and a 48 hour waiting period. Hardly a reversal of Roe V. Wade.

One more point: The amount of money spent on the Anti Ads was more then $100 million Dollars. The money for the Pro Ads were raised by Arnie, no help from the State GOP or National GOP. That, tells me a lot. My thanks to Arnie and his attempt to work for the people of California.

I've never seen people so misinformed about California politics.Dave Johnson, Davis was kicked out for mishandling the state, then lying about it. Holding the budget shortfall information until after the election. Giving away sweetheart deals to Unions that the state was too broke to pay. ~~~~~~

ahansen, you're as ignorant as you are infantile. Davis negotiated the energy deals and gave away the farm in doing so, and then he wanted a do-over by filing a lawsuit. Get your facts first, ignoramus, University of California pensions are the result of investments, not state funded giveaways. The pensions are not taxpayer paid. ~~~~~~~~~~~~

If my teenaged daughter has a medical procedure, it sure as hell is my business. You and the rest of the lazy welfare state parents have already granted your rights away to the state, but I haven't.

Dave,

I think many of the those blond voters voted for the Scwharzenegger backed initiatives.

Great freudian slip....

*Sigh*

I've been born and raised here in the Deserts of California. Time and again I've seen State Politics become more and more crazy and every time I hope for change and try and help change come about to no avail.

Fine, the Dems "won" here in California that's great. Since you guys are in charge why don't you fix something then? Do something about our boarder. Do something about the budget. Do something about the poverty. Do something about the power systems. DO SOMETHING!

That's my biggest complaint. You guys have been running California for DECADES and look at where we are! Right now we've done nothing but pass stupid anti-gun legislation and that's about it. If California would actually do something to help it's problems instead of exaserbate it I'd be a much happier Californian.

We here in California are happy to be a blue state. If you right wing types don't like it crawl back under what ever red state shit hole you came from. We don't want your meddling in our business.

If you all are so concerned with 9 year olds and 13 year olds getting abortions then (1) why don't you support efforts to KEEP THEM FROM GETTING PREGNANT, and (2) why don't you make your proposed amendment apply to them, and not 16-17 year olds. I was in freaking college when I was 17.

Further, there was A LOT more to that amendment than just notification, which you would know if you actually read it and educated yourself, including detailed record keeping and reporting requirements for ALL ABORTIONS. Now obviously if you are anti-choice then that won't bother you, but stop being all upset that people didn't support that amendment "because they think 9 year olds should get abortions".

First on the Abortion Initiative: The current law states that a child can get an abortion without notifying a parent. Frankly, if you think you need a law to get your daughter to talk to you when she's pregnant you've got bigger problems than CA's politics.

A few words about the budget in CA: If Prop 13 didn't deny local governments the power to provide thier own services at the levels they could afford there wouldn't be such a crisis in funding education, transit, police, fire and medical services in California. Local governments wouldn't have to rely on the state so much. Arn't Republicans supposed to be in favor of local control? Or was that just when it came to legislated racism? Why is it anyway that when I buy a house I have to pay 10x as much in property taxes as my neighbor who's owned it for 30 years? Let's also remember that businesses also don't have their property re-assesed unless it changes hands. Remember when GOP controlled Orange County went bankrupt? A good example of conservative politics at work.

It's amazing so many of you keep focusing on my example of a nine year old... it's rare, but it happens.. but for the sake of this discussion, let's just say its as 13 year old, or a 15 year old... it doesn't make ANY sense that this minor child can legally have a medical procedure without parental notification.

If someone can explain to me why at 17 years old I still needed a parents note to get aspirin from the school nurse, yet a 13 year old who gets pregnant can get an abortion without her parents EVER knowing...

Kathleen, i read the amendment.. but lets be honest about what thereal issue of the bill was..

Who the heck is talking about nine-year olds?

Maybe the voters in California decided that it is not worth the risk of opening the door to pregnant teenagers being beaten into a pulp by their so-called parents (all of them good Christians I am sure)?

Anyway, all of you so-called pro-lifers, should put your money where your mouth is.

Underwrite family values! As in support programs to help teenage mothers go back to school, and earn degrees that will help them get jobs that will go towards making a better life for themselves and their children. As in underwriting low-cost child care... As in lobbying for low-cost medical care for children..

Of course, it would cost money, and your kind does not like to be deprived of money that could go towards buying Humvees and other attributes of the Keeping-up-with-the-Joneses society.

All you people seem to be able to do is to blow religiosity and self-righteouness out of your asses. When it comes to address serious problems, you go missing.

Yea, well, we bested all you Kalifornicators here in the great green state of Washington.

We just passed an anti smoking initiative that is better than yours. I've heard it is one of the strictest in the nation.
"First they came for the smokers..."

Aren't we proud of our lovely nanny state?

We also defeated a no new gas tax (9.5 cents over the next three years) initiative. I helped gather signatures for this initiative and I am sick that it didn't pass. We had 2 months to collect 210,000 signatures. We turned in over 450,000. This looked like a slam dunk. Thanks to Boeing, Microsoft, The "Mainstream Republicans of Washington, (yes folks the REPUBLICANS) and the state Department of Transportation who gave millions of dollars, this initiative will fail. They used the typical scare tactics. The sad thing about this is, the unsafe roads will remain unsafe and the congested roads will remain congested.

There is one thing this election has shown me, we need to work really hard to create the great State of Eastern Washington. I'm sick and tired of western Washington deciding everything about this state.

I do admit these are small potatoes compared to the parental notification amendment in Kalifornia. That one is truly frightening.
"First they came for the parents..."

Maybe the voters in California decided that it is not worth the risk of opening the door to pregnant teenagers being beaten into a pulp by their so-called parents (all of them good Christians I am sure)?

That is a stupid non-argument and you know it. If you think about this issue logically, instead coming up with extraordinary circumstances then maybe you'd smarten up.

An abortion is a medical procedure, and like any medical procedure, there are risks... women have died from legal abortions... When a child---yes a CHILD--is putting their health and life at risk, don't you think it's commonsense that their parents be in the know...

I'd liek for you to show me evidence of teenagers coming from nonabusive families have an overwhelming instance of being abused for getting pregnant... There might be rare instances where it could happen, and the proposition did have a clause for a waiver, so you can't even use what it s likely an eextremely rare cirucmstance as a justification for voting against this propositoin.

Ok, first of all there is the typical hyperbole about abortion. The first is the weasel-worded "pro choice". Get real---it's not about being for CHOICE, or there would be a movement to make sure that all abortion-seekers would be given ALL the information about the procedure. Efforts to provide this kind of information, so abortion-seekers could actually make CHOICES instead of GUESSES, has been hysterically opposed, thereby stripping away the pretense that these people are pro CHOICE and making it clear that they are pro ABORTION.

Second, this election is proof that every time anything approaches the sacred cow that is abortion, the knee-jerk reaction is to vote NO. Just as there is an effort to convince people that revoking Roe v Wade would outlaw abortions, instead of merely getting the feds out of the issue and letting the voters of each state make their own rules, there is a very successful effort to convince the blond/blind that ANY restriction on ANY access to ANY abortion by ANY person is the first step toward banning all access to all abortions by all people. It's typical Left demagoguery.

Third, the issue of minors getting abortions is complicated by the fact that in nearly 100% of ALL pregnancies in minors, a crime has been committed. It's simple logic---again, a commodity lacking in Leftist discourse. But follow the line of reasoning here---pregnancy is the result of intercourse, and intercourse with a minor is a crime. Therefore, ensuring that frightened young girls can scrape out their unborn babies with no parental knowledge also means that those reponsible for those pregnancies are protected. As one claim is to protect the victims of rape or incest, those fighting so hard to defeat parental notification are choosing to protect rapists and those who commit incest with minor relatives.

Good for you, libs. Glad to see you have your priorities straight.

More proof that we cannot legislate morality. Has never worked and cannot work. Not that I do not wish it would. But people will not stop until everything is legal, everything is permitted, and everything is their "right". And then what? What will become of our great country? We will live in the biggest sewer this world has ever known. Even uglier than Rome. We will be just like the current dregs of Europe. Nothing will be sacred, holy, honorable or worthy to be preserved. It will be an abomination to God, an abomination to us who follow Christ, and truly worthy of God's wrath.

so much misinformation, so little time.

(1) Matt M. - there is plenty of evidence of teenagers being abused (and yes verbal abuse counts) if they inform their parents of their pregnancy. There was actually a lot of this information distributed during this campaign. And if you want that evidence, why don't you provide evidence of your 9 year old needing an abortion please.

(2) Matt M. - You may not think the other provisions were "the real issue", but then why were they in there? Further, though anecdotal, my husband voted against Prop 73 despite being in favor of parental notification because of the reporting requirements. Though I think he is quite special, I doubt highly that he was the only one.

(3) Matt M. - An abortion is "a medical procedure" but so is a root canal. Now obviously, morally there is a huge difference between the two, but not medically. Medically, a child is not putting their health/life at risk by having an abortion. I am sure that is hard to hear but it is a fact. They just aren't. And women and men have died from root canals as well. That doesn't speak at all to the issue of parental notification. And the difference between an abortion and your aspirin example is that the right to not be forced to have a baby is stronger than the right to take an aspirin provided by the school during the school day.

(4) Almiranta - check out California's criminal laws about minors having sex, and then get back to us with your "100% crime" tirade. And yes, I will stand up and say that I care more about the well being of the victim of rape than the rapist. Where is your evidence that forcing girls to tell their parents about their abortion leads to an increase in criminal prosecution of rape? oh, what's that? you don't have any?

(5) MSE - I always wonder why people think that their religious beliefs will dwindle to nothing withour government enforcement.

It is interesting how the right supports parental rights EXCEPT in the case of abortion (where the woman is the one who decides). It is interesting how the right is for state funded executions, oil wars, crusades, and torture... and against any state support of education, social medicine, or welfare... not very Pro-Life.

To the right, I submit, it is not about life at all. It is about control. The right wants men to dominate the family, church to dominate society, and our country to dominate the world. The right is about patriarchy, theocracy, and "manifest destiny". The only difference between the right in the US and the right in Iran, for example, is names they call their god and their country... it is a bit ironic that they are bent on each others destruction (demonstrating that it is not even about god - it is still about control).

Almiranta just makes stuff up, apparently. I guess it's true that 42% of all statistics are made up on the spot. :-)

Most minor-aged pregnancies are not illegal.

RKH,

No, its really all about our desire to not have innocent, unborn children butchered in the womb.

Kathleen,

No, verbal abuse doesn't count...and a girl who gets pregnant should expect some verbal abuse from her parents, and be grateful that they care enough to get angry about it.

It is absurd to have a teenager get an abortion without parental knowledge or consent...I'm terribly sorry, but all the mental gymnastics in the world aren't going to change the self-evident fact that a child cannot decide on such a momentous issue without parental input. The only thing not having parental notification helps is sick old men who get teenagers pregnant and want to cover up the tracks.

Mark you have shown your true colors.

Girls deserve to be abused for the crime of getting pregnant. And they should be happy about it!

Sick.

Mark Noonan - "No, its really all about our desire to not have innocent, unborn children butchered in the womb."

Well, Mark, I think we all share that desire. I have yet to meet someone who is actually pro-abortion - anymore than someone who is for collateral damage in a war. No sane person takes a decision like abortion lightly.

However, ultimately it is none of my business if I am not the pregnant person in question. It is not my uterus, my body, my flesh and blood. Who am I or you or the government to stick our noses into someone else’s body and try to control their reproduction. It is, I would submit, not even anyone’s business that someone is pregnant. That woman is not public property (nor the property of her husband nor of her church) – her womb and anything it contains is no one’s business but her own. If there is such a thing as parental rights it surely covers the choice of whether to have a child or not in the first place. And if there is such a thing as human rights surely it covers one's own body.

As far as a teen having an abortion - if they are together enough to seek it and ask for it perhaps it should be their decision. Ultimately it is our call as humans - as animals even - what goes into our bodies and what comes out. But then the right also believes in force feeding someone against their will - and forcing someone in extreme pain to keep on "living". At least its consistent. The right knows what is best for others.