Foley was expelled from the House? No he wasn't. He was confronted with the scandal and immediately resigned. The real question is: How long did the Republicans know about these issues and for how long did they engage in a cover-up?

The real question is: How long did the Republicans know about these issues and for how long did they engage in a cover-up?

Cyberactor, this is a legitimate question, but not in the way you think. Clarice Feldman, a Washington, DC, attorney, does a great job of putting the whole affair into perspective over at The American Thinker today. This is going to backfire on the Donks big time.

Cyberactor... reading isn't your strong point I see... the comment was if the Speaker had known about the extent Foley had gone, he would have been expelled. It doesn't say he was expelled.

Perhaps your comprehension deficiencies is what's shading your messed up world view.

I read Clarice's piece on this issue. She is proposing some fantastic conspiracy theory about how bloggers are responsible for this coming out.

So much for the party of personal responsibility, right?

Fair enough, wawilliyo. I misread it. My mistake.

Now tell me: if it turns out that Hastert and the other members of the House leadership knew about these e-mails and did not start an investigation, will you demand that they resign? Or will you join the chorus of apologists?

Remember: the House leadership did not do anything about this issue. It took a reporter to break the story, make the revelations and force him to resign. And now you attack the media? Sheesh...

Getting a little transparent Mark. One of the biggest election time scandals breaks, one that may well end up costing speaker Hastert his job for his role in the cover up and at first you just try to ignore it, and finally once realizing that it is not going away, you disable comments on the main site and only allow them here, on your obscure other site that only gets a tenth of the traffic. Your excuse for not posting it earlier is "Well, Foley is more of a strictly House issue with no connection to President Bush...as this is "Blogs for Bush", we didn't think that the issue had relevance to this blog."

Might fly if you only allowed topics on your site that are directly relavent to Bush, unfortunately, 75% or more are GOP topics or anti-democrat topics, nothing more relavent to Bush than this one.

I personally think its great that this scumbag had the towel pulled from his waist right on the cusp of election time, yet another seat in the house that was likely safe and now is up for grabs. The GOP is the best political ally that the democrats have, they are singlehandedly flushing themselves into political obscurity. Keep it up

Cyberactor:
I'll call for their resignation if it's proved they new about the more lewd Instant Messages as the email that was presented first may have seemed creepy, but it wasn't vulgar plus the parents said they were upset but didn't want anything to do about it.

I'll also shout loudly for their resignation if you shout loudly for the resignation of Ted Kennedy as he's either a killer at worst or allowed a woman to die at best; and for the resignation of Robert Byrd, who in his 30s was trying to sign people up for the Ku Klux Klan; or Hillary Clinton for her involvement in cover up of the murder of Vince Foster; or Representative Jefferson who had tens of thousands of dollars of bribe money in his FREEZER; or Representative Kennedy who crashes his vehicle and hopped up on drugs; or Representative Jack Murtha and the ABSCAM scandal; or condemn Representative McKinney for slapping a police officer or Representative Studds who did the EXACT SAME THING FOLEY DID yet he remained in office for a decade afterwards...

Sure, I'll call for 100% resignations if we're going to play the second guessing in hindsight game.

If you seriously want to talk about scandals amongst political parties... let's ROCK...

Yes, let's rock. I'd like to see a list of Democratics who've been convicted of the same... let's go! This doesn't even include Mark Foley or Tom Delay. Let's go, Mark. Post this one. I dare you!

House of Representatives
Rep. Roy Blunt [4] (R-MO)
Rep. Ken Calvert [5](R-CA) (new, September 2006)
Rep. John Doolittle [6](R-CA) (new, September 2006)
Rep. Tom Feeney [7] (R-FL)
Rep. Katherine Harris [8] (R-FL) (new, September 2006)
Rep. William Jefferson [9] (D-LA)
Rep. Jerry Lewis [10](R-CA) (new, September 2006)
Rep. Gary Miller [11](R-CA) (new, September 2006)
Rep. Alan Mollohan [12](D-WV) (new, September 2006)
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave [13] (R-CO)
Rep. Richard Pombo [14] (R-CA)
Rep. Rick Renzi [15] (R-AZ)
Rep. Pete Sessions [16](R-TX) (new, September 2006)
Rep. John Sweeney [17](R-NY) (new, September 2006)
Rep. Charles H. Taylor [18] (R-NC)
Rep. Maxine Waters [19] (D-CA)
Rep. Curt Weldon [20] (R-PA) (new, September 2006)
[edit]
Senate
Sen. Conrad Burns [21] (R-MT)
Sen. Bill Frist [22] (R-TN)
Sen. Rick Santorum [23] (R-PA)
[edit]
"Five members to watch" (added September 2006)
Rep. Chris Cannon [24] (R-UT)
Rep. Dennis Hastert [25] (R-IL)
Rep. J.D. Hayworth [26] (R-AZ)
Rep. John Murtha [27] (D-PA)
Rep. Don Sherwood [28] (R-PA)

Sooo... you listed people... that you clearly cut and pasted from somewhere... what did these people do...

If you're gonna bring it, at least TRY.

How about I include Mr. Trafficant of Ohio... a Democrat who went directly from the House to JAIL.

And if you want to use Delay, how about you use something where there's a chance of a conviction. It TOOK FOUR grand juries and some prosecutorial misconduct to get that indictment.

or

Mr. McDermott of Washington who violated federal law by turning over an illegally taped telephone call of Newt Gingrich to reporters.

or

Sandy Berger taking incriminating documents regarding 9/11 out of the National Archives to protect him and his former boss.

or

Frank Ballance from North Carolina was sentenced to four years in federal prison for conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his law firm and family.

or how about the House Banking Scandal of the early 90s.
Former Rep. Carl C. Perkins (D-KY)
Former Rep. Carroll Hubbard, Jr. (D-KY)
Former Rep. Mary Rose Oakar (D-OH) Delegate Walter E. Fauntroy (D-DC) The former Sergeant At Arms, (hired by the DEMOCRATIC SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE) Jack Russ, pled guilty to three felonies.[3]

or

How about the House Post Office Money Launderers Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) and Joe Kolter (D-PA).

Guess what the Speaker Foley (D-WA) did about the last two scandals. ZIP. ZERO. ZILCH. So far, Speaker Hastert (R-IL) has done 100% more than Foley did to get to the root of the problem.

Now that's what they did... Should I just make a list like you did Nara... Please... If you're the opposition... I'm definitely not scared.

So... It's your turn... are you sure you're up for this?

The Foley incident only proves one thing: the Republican leadership cares about protecting young people from sexual predators if (and only if) there is media around to chronicle their care and concern. If the media isn't there, the Republican leadership could not possibly care less.

Of course there is now outrage and a collective beating of chests. But where was the outrage BEFORE all of the evidence became public?

I have voted Republican all my life, but this gang of thieves MUST go. If it means some Democrats for a while, so be it.

Smoker,

Where was the outrage before the evidence became known?

Where was the fire before the match was struck...

You're comment is way past silly.

Nara,

Ok, its posted - but what does it mean? Nice list of Congresscritters, but could you please tell us what the list is about?

Axis,

I just don't see it as that big a deal - what is there to debate, really? A man did a reprehensible thing and has been removed from public life and may face criminal prosecution...I don't see where else this goes.

Oh, and this site would have more traffic if you guys would come here more often - we really get some primo articles here.

Cyber,

If there is definitive proof that any GOP leader knew 100% of the story and then did nothing, then that GOPer should resign...there is, however, no indication that such a thing happened.

The MSM may think that have their 'October Surprise', but this is not just a GOP issue.

If Foley's behavior was known by all the pages, then it stands to reason that it wasn't just GOP leadership that failed, but the Dem leadership as well. Pelosi and Reid would've had as much opportunity to hear the rumors about Foley and demand an investigation, as any Republican.

This story was released to get the maximum effect and change the course of the 2006 elections. A scandal like this has more effect than Woodward book, and is harder to trace back the evidence.

Wait a minute: Hastert and the Republican leadership had to know "100%" of what was going on prior to the latest revelations before you'd call for their resignations? That's a pretty high bar to set.

How about this: If it turns out that Hastert was informed that a Congressman was sending ANY lewd messages to teenage pages and did not (a) inform the House Ethics committee, (b) launch an immediate investigation and (c) have a very serious sit-down with that Congressman, you'll be okay with that because...hey...he didn't have 100% of each and every message this guy sent to these kids? Is that what you're saying?

Just need to make it crystal clear what kind of responsible behavior you expect from your leadership. After all, you're the party of personal responsibility, right?

Again you can't read very well.

I said that I'm not going to ask for the resignation of someone who said he knew the existence of an email or two that some thought a bit inappropriate and where the parents asked for nothing to be done.

But why haven't you asked for Barney Frank to resign... after all, he was living with a male prostitute...

Or Rep. Studds who actually DID the deed with underage male pages and remained in Congress for another THIRTEEN YEARS.

Ya.. where was your outrage then you hypocrit.

Call for Pelosi's resignation. Call for Reid's resignation. After all, he's the "boss" of a murderer and racist. Come on... got the guts?

Nice dodge, there, wawillyo. But I wasn't talking to you, dummy. I was responding to Mark.

Here's the thing: Foley is just the latest in a long, long list of Republican pedophiles. I was originally going to compile a list of Republican criminals over the years (you know, David Safavian, Jack Abramoff, Rob Ney, Duke Cunningham, Claude Allen, Bill Janklow, John Rowland, etc. etc.) but why bother? Why not just list the Republicans who have been convicted of sex crimes against children?

Here is a PARTIAL LIST. You'll notice that it is in alphabetical order AND it only goes from A-D. I have pages more.

Hypocrite? Not on my side of the aisle, bub. Yours is the party that breeds pedophiles, not mine.

>>EDISON MISLA ALDORANDO, Speaker of the Puerto Rico House of Representatives, reached a deal with prosecutors to reduce a rape charge to attempted rape of his 17 year-old step daughter and her friend. He was sentenced to 13 years in prison for the lesser crime and two counts of giving alcohol to minors.

RANDAL DAVID ANKENEY, a Republican activist and regional representative for Colorado Governor's Office of Economic Development, charged with sexual assault on a child with force, sexual assault on a child, sexual exploitation of a child, marijuana possession, and possession of drug paraphernalia, but copped a plea to a lesser crime of attempted sexual assault. The girl was 13 years old at the time. In addition, he was charged in the sexual assault of a 17 year-old campaign worker. Oh yeah, his dogs were named Nixon and Reagan.

PAUL ROBERT BALACH was Labor Secretary Elizabeth Dole's political personnel liaison to the White House. He was also an aide to Rep. Robert Bauman. Balach was part of a major White House scandal during the 1980's. Children from orphanages in Nebraska were transported around the United States by top Republican officials in order to engage in child sex orgies with America's ruling elite. Balach paid for homosexual prostitute services which were charged to his credit card.

MERRILL ROBERT BARTER, Lincoln County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy. His den of iniquity was a motel near the Civic Center during the Republican State Convention which he attended. He was handed a suspended sentence of two years in prison, with two years probation.

REP. ROBERT BAUMAN, chairman of the American Conservative Union in 1979, was an anti-gay activist who was described as the quintessential conservative, family-values congressman. He was also a married, and leading a double life. He was charged with solicitation and having sex with a 16-year-old boy he met at a gay bar.

PARKER J. BENA, a Republican activist, pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer(including children as young as 3 years of age) and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

LOUIS BERES was Chairman of the Christian coalition of Oregon. According to its web site, the group describes itself as Oregon's leading grassroots organization defending our Godly heritage, and is affiliated with the national organization founded by Pat Robertson. Beres was accused by three of his female family members of molesting them when they were pre-teens. Some heritage!

HOWARD L. BROOKS, legislative aide and former director of the Antelope Valley YMCA, was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

ANDREW BUHR, the Republican party nominee for the Missouri House in 2000 and the former Republican committeeman for Hadley Township, was one of three men charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

JOHN ALLEN BURT, an anti-abortion extremist, was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl. He was caught by police 150 miles from the scene of the crime, obviously trying to make his escape. The girl, one of two who have brought about allegations against Burt, was living at Our Father's House, Burt's home for unwed mothers.

JOHN BUTLER, Cass County, IL, GOP chairman, was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl. Butler had previously received pardons from Gov. George Ryan for burglary convictions.

KEOLA CHILDS Interesting last name for a pedophile, Hawaii County Councilman pleaded guilty to first degree sexual assault of a male child.

CAREY LEE CRAMER, a political consultant, and the man behind the ad accusing the Clinton-Gore Administration of giving away nuclear technology, was convicted on two counts of indecency with a child by contact and one count of indecency with a child by exposure. He faces up to 149 years in prison.

REP. DAN CRANE had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page. Rep. Henry Hyde pleaded mercy for his friend before members of the House. "I suggest to the members that compassion and justice are not antithetical; they are complementary." They must have been moved by Hyde's compassionate oratory, because they voted to censure Crane rather than expel him.

KEVIN COAN, Republican election board official, was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the Internet (A favorite tool of neo-con pedophiles) from a 14-year old girl. The "girl" was actually a male Alton police officer who had set up a chat-room sting.

RICHARD A. DASEN SR., Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, was charged with rape of a 15-year old girl and two felony counts of promoting prostitution, after being caught in a cheap motel, clad in his underwear, with a nearly-naked young lady who was behind in her payments to his finance company. Dasen, 62, is married with grown children and several grandchildren. According to court documents, he admitted to police that he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women, many of whom were in legal trouble, addicted to drugs and in debt to him.

RICHARD A. DELGAUDIO, a major GOP fundraiser who collected money for Ronald Reagan and Jessie Helms, was found guilty of producing child pornography, after paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos in a Baltimore Hotel.

PETER DIBBLE, legislator from New London, CT, pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl over a three year period. Obviously Dibble liked to dabble with young girls.

BRIAN J. DOYLE, Deputy Press Secretary of Homeland Security, propositioned what he thought was a 14 year-old girl over the Internet. He sent her pornographic movie clips and had sexually explicit conversations with her. As it turns out, the girl was really an undercover police detective, and Doyle was caught with his virtual pants down. He revealed his name, his position at Homeland Security Department, and offering his office and government issued cell phone numbers.

CHARLES K. DUTCHER, associate director of presidential personnel in the Reagan Administration, was part of a major White House scandal during the 1980's. Children from orphanages in Nebraska were transported around the United States by top Republican officials in order to engage in child sex orgies with America's ruling elite. Dutcher paid for homosexual prostitute services which were charged to his credit card."

Need more, Mr. Smarty Pants? I've got PAGES of this stuff.

What a bunch of slimeballs.

Since you're asking, though, wally, let's respond to this little piece of piffle:

"I said that I'm not going to ask for the resignation of someone who said he knew the existence of an email or two that some thought a bit inappropriate and where the parents asked for nothing to be done."

Let's see...

"An e-mail or two." What if it was three? Four? Ten? How many is too many? How about ONE?

"Some thought was inappropriate." Who is "some"? What constitutes "inappropriate"?

"The parents asked for nothing to be done." What if the parents didn't know? What if the pages simply reported the behavior to their (Republican) bosses and waited for the justice that never came?

Jeez, you are so full of it I'm surprised you don't choke. Stand up like a man and say the right thing for once: ANYONE who knew that this Congressman was writing ANYTHING inappropriate to TEENAGE PAGES and did nothing about it should RESIGN.

How difficult is that?

Trust me Cyber... you may have pages... WE HAVE VOLUMES... and what "source" are you plagiarizing from? Hell, the owners of this blog are writing a book. Dare I say it could probably be as lengthy as the Encyclopedia.

Y'all were in power for 40 plus years. Trust us, we can go back a LOT farther if you want.

Bottomline is... I'm totally willing to not politicize or lump all political groups as pedophiles like the Democrats are trying to do.
Nor am I saying there is a grand conspiracy to by the Republicans to cover this up. However, Democrats for some reason DO NOTHING, DON'T COVER IT UP, NOR SOLVE THE PROBLEM and then have then NERVE to call the Speaker of the House a liar, or should I say, EVERY REPUBLICAN a liar if they recall something wrong or if they give their accounts of an event that doesn't jive with you and the libo-fascists (there... I've said it... Hitler would be proud of your cultish devotion to the Daily Kos/Dean/Reid party line.

See... isn't it nice to be called EVIL names and to denegrate someone's character for effect.

The point I'll make again is: I am not going to call for the resignation of the Speaker of the House until a)there is REAL proof that he knew about the extent of the actual lewd details of the instant messages that called for meetings (even though I might add that in many states, 16 is the legal age of consent, but still it was inappropriate what the guy was doing); b)the Democrat leaders who ALLOW Reps. Jefferson, Frank, Murtha et al to remain in office, Sens. Kennedy and Byrd to remain in office; c)and if he does hamper the Justice Department investigation into this issue (some have called for his resignation because he'll hamper the investigation into himself which he'll oversee. My understanding is that the FBI/DOJ will do the investigation).

See... I'm all for accountability and responsibility. I want bums out of office, as you seem to as well. However, I do not find you genuine in your "throw the Dem Bums out as well" meme. For two reasons... Your blatant desire for power in 2006 and not 2008 so y'all can try and impeach President Bush (which is what this is really all about anyways). Second reason, there are crooks and bums in the Democrat party now but you're not calling for investigations and resignations 5 weeks before the election RIGHT NOW.

Call for the investigation of Rep. Murtha for ABSCAM RIGHT NOW and I might be able to believe in the words you say.

BTW... I formatted this into different paragraphs, but for some reason, it's running it all together in the preview. I apologize for it looking rather chunky.

Let me see here, let me see....where to start with this drivel?

>>Trust me Cyber... you may have pages... WE HAVE VOLUMES

Ha! The hell you do! If you did, you’d POST it. Shoot, I’ve done the search myself, looking for pedophiles from the Democratic ranks over the past 30 years. Guess how many? Five. All reprehensible, all deserving of whatever punishment they got. But still, only five. I’ve got SIXTY FIVE Republican pedophiles I can share with you.

Oh, and as for my source, you really should ask for my “sources.” Plural. Just go to any friendly search engine, buddy-boy, and enter the term “Republican sex scandals.” BOOM! You’ll get about 20,000 hits. Just scroll through the long LONG list and have a nice gander. And here’s a tip: instead of shooting the messenger, why don’t you actually respond to the accusation? Answer: because you can’t. Sad, isn’t it?

“Y'all were in power for 40 plus years. Trust us, we can go back a LOT farther if you want.”

Knock yourself out. Be my guest. I can’t WAIT.

“Bottomline is... I'm totally willing to not politicize or lump all political groups as pedophiles like the Democrats are trying to do.”

Oh, puh-LEEZE. This isn’t about politicizing the issue. The only reason I even posted my PARTIAL list of pedophile Republicans was to respond to your earlier “Are you up to this?” taunt. And man, oh, man did I serve you up on a platter.

“Nor am I saying there is a grand conspiracy to by the Republicans to cover this up.”

Um, why would you say that? Hell, I’m not even saying that. What I’m saying (and what you haven’t been able to refute) is: Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert knew about Foley misbehaving with pages for months and did nothing about it. N O T H I N G. The motive is murky, but my pet theory is that he was terrified of losing seats in the House and chose politics over taking care of the young pages in his care. PLUS he didn’t notify the bipartisan committee that oversees the House page program, for fear of the Democrats finding out about his pet pedophile. Sad, sad, sad.

Next up, the top of your head blows off: “However, Democrats for some reason DO NOTHING, DON'T COVER IT UP, NOR SOLVE THE PROBLEM and then have then NERVE to call the Speaker of the House a liar”

Just out of curiosity, what the hell are you talking about? I mean, if you’re describing Coach Hastert, you’re right on the money. Otherwise, it’s all just gibberish. Cover WHAT up?

So let’s examine your threshold for holding your own House Speaker responsible. And this time, see if you can actually answer the questions I put to you instead of running away from them. ‘Kay?

“ I am not going to call for the resignation of the Speaker of the House until a)there is REAL proof that he knew about the extent of the actual lewd details of the instant messages that called for meetings”

I see! So encouraging a young teenage page to masturbate on-line is not good enough for you? Denny had to know that Foley had arranged to meet these kids? Nothing less than that will anger you enough to ask that he quit? That’s just great. I’m SO proud of you. You just expect SO much of your leadership.

Then? Wally decides to defend the indefensible: “even though I might add that in many states, 16 is the legal age of consent, but still it was inappropriate what the guy was doing.”

Um, Wally? It wasn’t “inappropriate.” It was CRIMINAL. In fact, he broke the same law that he WROTE. Honestly, are you that dim? You're making excuses to justify Foley's behavior now? Have you no morals at ALL?

But Wally isn’t done making excuses. He STILL won’t call for Denny to resign unless: “the Democrat leaders who ALLOW Reps. Jefferson, Frank, Murtha et al to remain in office, Sens. Kennedy and Byrd to remain in office”

Okay, that wasn’t a complete sentence from Wally. But what can you expect?

“and if he does hamper the Justice Department investigation into this issue (some have called for his resignation because he'll hamper the investigation into himself which he'll oversee. My understanding is that the FBI/DOJ will do the investigation).”

So Wally wants ALL THREE of these things to happen before calling for Hastert’s resignation. And then he has the nerve to say, “See... I'm all for accountability and responsibility.”

What a load of horse hockey. You’re running away from accountability and responsibility as fast as your spindly legs can carry you. If you had even a modicum of either, you would insist that Hastert resign NOW. But, instead, you are focused on making excuses for a disgraced, predatory, loathsome stalker of children.

Hope you’re proud.

A quick note, though: What you think, Wally, doesn't really matter. Know why? Because Hastert will be out by the end of the week. (He'll stay in Congress, probably, but he will be OUT as speaker.) Shoot, Delay was ousted for an inappropriate toast at a private birthday party! He GONE!

Bet on it.

Wow Cyberactor:
You're just plain stupid. It was Trent Lott who was called a racist because he wanted to praise a 100 year old friend of his...

Ya... how horrible to suggest someone would have done a good job as President (he said nothing of the policies of that person) yet Ted Kennedy left someone to drown to death and NOT EVEN ONE PROSECUTION.

Or how about Robert Byrd who was an actual member of the KKK in his 30s... he couldn't say it was a youthful indiscretion.

I'm actually very much in favor of ethics reform. It's you who's not. You only want ethics (your version by the way... which allows for a murderer to remain in office and an accused RAPIST in Bill Clinton to keep his job) for the Republicans.

Just because your party has no values and no ethics doesn't mean you can hoist Republicans up on accusations that you make when the facts haven't come out.

So... what if he steps aside for the time being... maybe Pelosi should do the same over Rep. Jefferson until he's proven guilty or innocent. He's still VOTING and in office.

Less than two hours after the scandal broke at least the Republican resigned and an investigation was launched. The last Democratic Speaker did nothing on a HOST of scandals. That's why 1994 happened... 77 members of Congress resigned because of scandals your last Speaker presided over.

But if you do win back the House, I'll just be happy to know there won't be a Democrat President in 2008 because once you win, you'll have to govern and y'all have proven in the last 12 years you don't have any plans on how to do that.

So in the end, we'll win the day. We've been winning the Presidency a whole lot more than you have. So go ahead you get Speaker Pelosi and I'll get a GOP president in 2008.

But bottomline... I am for Accountability and Responsibility... I just am not going to throw a decent person out before there are FACTS... but then again, you don't know what decent means, what facts mean, or what responsibility means.

So... go take a long walk off a short peer and get back to the Daily Kos.

Also... what's criminal about an adult talking to another consenting adult?

I am not defending this guy's actions... but let's know what the laws are.

There's a diffence between sleazy and illegal...

But then again, you guys are SOOOOOO good at doing both it's hard to separate the two... you know... like Barney Frank living with a male prostitute who ran the business out of Frank's home with Frank's knowledge.

Why is he still in office under your rationale... I'd love to sign the letter you wrote to Pelosi asking for his resignation and the letter she sent to the FBI/DOJ looking into criminal proceedings. Or how about Rep. Jefferson?

Hard to know what to say, but at least there’s an explanation. Wally’s drunk. Got to be. No one rambles like that when they’re sober.

For example, what does this even MEAN?

“... how horrible to suggest someone would have done a good job as President (he said nothing of the policies of that person) yet Ted Kennedy left someone to drown to death and NOT EVEN ONE PROSECUTION.”

Who said what about who? And if you want to bring charges against Kennedy, um, what charges would you like to bring? Robert Byrd? Yes, he was a KKK member about fifty years ago. So was Strom Thurmond. Heck, Strom was a DEMOCRAT fifty years ago, but you didn’t hold that against him, did you?

Stop changing the subject, you freak. We’re talking about what’s happening TODAY, not thirty or fifty years ago. Really, is that the best you’ve got? Barney Frank went to a hooker?

Look, Wally, we’re talking about a pedophile here. This is slightly more serious than politicians and hookers. I mean, do you really want to get into the whole “Hey! Henry Hyde had an affair in his forties! Was that a ‘youthful indescretion’?” crap? It’s irrelevant!

But that’s all you’ve got. You just keep parroting the GOP party line. Try to actually respond to the Foley story, okay? Because you’re just embarrassing yourself. “Kennedy was a murderer! Clinton was an accused rapist!” It’s all a smokescreen.

“Just because your party has no values and no ethics doesn't mean you can hoist Republicans up on accusations that you make when the facts haven't come out.”

Oh, yeah? How about THESE facts: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/30/foley-coverup-timeline

You wanted facts? You got ‘em. Hastert knew. And he wasn’t the only one. And they did N O T H I N G.

“But bottomline... I am for Accountability and Responsibility... I just am not going to throw a decent person out before there are FACTS... but then again, you don't know what decent means, what facts mean, or what responsibility means. So... go take a long walk off a short peer and get back to the Daily Kos.”

The word is ‘pier,’ dummy. And after reading the ‘facts,’ please tell me where you stand on your ‘responsible’ house leadership.

And while I’m at it:

“Also... what's criminal about an adult talking to another consenting adult?”

Nothing, idiot. But the child was NOT an adult. What is it that you don’t get?

“I am not defending this guy's actions... but let's know what the laws are.”

The laws, which Foley helped write, make it illegal to solicit sex from minors over the Internet.

“There's a diffence between sleazy and illegal...”

Is there a difference between willfully stupid and completely freakin’ retarded? Because you’re crossing whatever line there may be. Remember, I’m not asking that Hastert leave Congress, but he CANNOT remain as Speaker.

Re: Barney Frank: “Why is he still in office under your rationale... I'd love to sign the letter you wrote to Pelosi asking for his resignation and the letter she sent to the FBI/DOJ looking into criminal proceedings. Or how about Rep. Jefferson?”

Dude, I’ll make it as clear as day: If anybody can prove they did anything illegal, and I’ll be the first one to say “Throw ‘em out!” Will you?

If I'm drunk then you're stoned...

go to google and type in age of consent and you'll discover that this guy may not have broken the law. But regardless; he's GONE.

I'm saying exactly what you're saying... if you CAN PROVE someone did something wrong, then they should go.

However, what you're claiming is that Hastert KNEW EVERYTHING and covered it up. That is not proven nor have we really heard what everyone was told.

Have you ever talked to a kid on the phone? Asked how they were? Are you a pervert?

As Mark pointed out, a man leaving his place of work with a young woman doesn't automatically mean he's having an affair. So if you're that man's boss, should you FIRE him?

I'm saying I want to know what really happened before I say chuck anyone out of their office.

However... will you also say that Pelosi should be held to account for not getting Jefferson removed from office if he did indeed take bribes?

If you can say yes to that; then we can agree on what accountibility and responsibility mean.

By the way... you know nothing about my personal life... and I'd appreciate you not saying I'm drunk (quite honestly I do NOT drink because I have a history of alcoholism in my family).

I questioned your ability to comprehend what you read because you missed some important stuff, and yes, I did it in a manner that was not comely; for that I should apologize, but personal attacks shouldn't be accepted.

If you want to call me a right wing nut job, I'll call you a liberal whacko that's one thing; but to say someone is a drunk or someone is an idiot when you don't know them.

And quite frankly, I think I have a better grasp of what's going on in this situation than you, who seem to be grasping at ways of turning this into a scandal epidemic in the Republican Party.

The Speaker of the House was interviewed about this subject today and this is what he says he knew.

SPEAKER HASTERT: There's two sets of e-mails first of all -- or text messages I guess what they are -- and one set or bunch of them were done in 2003. We never knew about it. Someone else held those all the way from 2003 until now. The next set was -- the other one was -- something that the family asked Representative Alexander to look into. He contacted the counsel in our office. Our counsel put him to the page board. The page board confronted Foley, and this was the Katrina message that said, basically, "How did you get through the hurricane? Are you okay?" But the parents wanted him... We did know what the text of that message was because the parents held it and they didn't want it revealed, but we stopped it. We went to Foley; told him to stand down, "Don't do this." We asked if there was any sex or explicit language in this message. There was not, and we thought we had the thing resolved.

SO... if this is what indeed went down, then no, I don't think the Speaker should resign. I think the FBI should find out who kept the predatory/lewd documents secret for three years to use as a weapon.

And... if in what should be the glaring light of an FBI investigation it's discovered Hastert knew more than the claims at this point, then he should no longer be Speaker.

Hope this clarifies what was REALLY known by the Speaker of the House. Out of curiosity, are you going to call him a liar?

What needs to be done? For starters the House leadership (from both parties) needs to demand that each member of the House issue a public on the record statement of what they knew about Rep. Foleys actions towards Pages and what they did about it. Will most of them lie through their teeth? Yeah probably but at least we will have their deceit on the record. If 16 year olds knew this guys reputation its a bit difficult to believe that members of Congress or their staffs were so blissfuly ignorant. Maybe we need more off the record interviews with Pages. It might be amazing the things we learn about our members of Congress.

Wally-

Seriously, did you look at the timeline? Have you read the instant messages? Did you know that Foley was writing these things from his DC office?

I didn't say Hastert "knew everything." But he sure as hell knew enough. Now even Boehner is contradicting him. Hastert is covering up for himself. And it's sickening. You quote Hastert as saying that he asked if the messages were sexual. But did he read them himself? No? Did he fully investigate this dangerous issue? No? Then he has to GO.

But don’t worry. He’s going anyway. Already the Republican leadership is deciding exactly WHEN he will go. One option is for him to announce that he will retain the leadership until the election and then bow out. (Of course, he won’t have much of a choice, since the Dems are going to take the House anyway.)

And, Wally- let me by absolutely clear about this: You are making a HUGE MISTAKE in trying to justify what Foley did. This "age of consent" stuff is a load of crap. Know who was old enough to have consensual sex? Monica Lewinsky. NOT these teenage pages. Foley invited this kids over for drinks, too. Underage kids, pal. He tried to meet with them. And you're suggesting he didn't commit a crime?

Buddy, you're taking the wrong approach to this. I never suspected that the GoOPers would actually stoop to trying to justify Foley's behavior. I should have known better.

Nothing is beneath you.

Final notes: I appreciate that you’re feeling sensitive about my language, but remember, you wrote this to me first: “

“Perhaps your comprehension deficiencies is what's shading your messed up world view.”

Who’s calling who an idiot?

And finally: Pelosi should not be held accountable for ANYTHING until something is proved against Jefferson. You do GET that, right?

Cyber:
It's funny that you're name is cyberactor when that's what Foley was doing (isn't smearing people fun!?!)...

Anyways... you say Hastert has to go... yet for Pelosi it's "should not be held accountable for ANYTHING until something is proved against Jefferson."

However, nothing has been PROVED against Foley. What crimes has he committed (not excusing the actions but what are the actual crimes) and second, when was he found guilty by a court of law?

So... Jefferson has frozen bribe money in his freezer and what more proof do you need for him? The evidence seems to be as much a slam dunk as it is with Foley.

You're just playing political games. The FBI didn't pursue this matter because they didn't know of the IMs... so the Speaker should pursue an investigation that the Federal Bureau of Investigation didn't feel a need to further investigate?

Soooo... tell me exactly now how Hastert should resign. You're just trying to politicize this and you know it.

Just admit it. And I am very much accurate that on at least three occasions you've misunderstood the author's actual words. That is a comprehension issue... you've called me drunk, an idiot, probably a whole lot else... I'm now waiting for you to call me a pedophile supporter... I'd ask do you have no shame or decency, but you clearly don't have respect for anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what you do.

Oh, Wally, this is just getting SAD.

Foley isn't guilty of anything? Dude, he QUIT. He's admitted to everything. Now he's busy playing the victim card from morning til night in the hopes of salvaging some modicum of dignity from this whole thing. (Note to Mark: Too late!) He was having cyber-sex (not quite the same as cyberacting!) with more than one teenage boy!

Jefferson is very likely guilty (sure looks that way to me), but Pelosi CANNOT fire him. She's not his boss, for one thing. Jefferson can hold on to that seat right up until he is convicted and no one can do ANYTHING about it. No one. Follow that logic?

And excuse me: I'M playing political games? You're the one who keeps changing the subject, bringing up totally unrelated and irrelevant people (Kennedy! Clinton! Jefferson!). If you'd stick to the ACTUAL subject instead of playing dodgeball, then maybe you'd have to guts to actually call for some damn responsibility from your party leaders. But no, you're too busy on damage control. Politics trumps ideology and morals. Again.

Take a look at who has Hastert in their crosshairs. News flash, buddy: it's the Republicans. The Christian Right, too. They are all lining up to ax this guy. Pal, when the Washington Times calls for the resignation of a Republican Speaker, you KNOW he's in trouble.

And for the record, I'm not saying you lack shame or decency for not agreeing with me. I'm saying that if you try to make excuses for an admitted cyberstalker of teenagers (by, for example, bringing up 'age of consent' laws), then you have abandoned your morals for the sake of your party.

That doesn't make you an idiot. It just makes you completely and utterably dishonorable.

Willy:

You mentioned earlier: "what's criminal about an adult talking to another consenting adult?". According to http://www.ageofconsent.com/florida.htm (sorry, my html-fu is weak), the age of consent in Florida (where at least some of the messages were sent from) is 18. It's 16 if you're less than 24, but obviously that does not apply here. Secondly, the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act of 2006 prohibits solicitation of minors over the internet, and they define minor there as under 18. It seems pretty clear laws were broken. Granted, he has not been convicted yet, but neither was Ted Kennedy, so can we all knock off the Chappaquiddick jokes?

/kidding

Seriously, I just wanted to clarify. I'll leave you and Cyber to your fun.

Actually Cyber,
You're great at missing my point. I bring up others to point out that all the accusations that this is a wide spread pandemic of corruption in the Republican Party is just bunk and there's plenty of evidence to suggest sleaze and irresponsible leadership is everywhere.

Good point you bring up Jefferson. Foley at least had the BALLS to resign. Jefferson hasn't. Hastert had the BALLS to ask the FBI/DOJ to investigate the situation. Pelosi hasn't asked for further investigations into Jefferson, hell, she (along with Hastert) wanted the FBI to return documents of the corruption they found in his office because of separation of powers (which means you can be a crook and keep the proof at work and they can't get you).

And you seem to do a great job of ignoring the whole point I'm trying to make. You wanted me to come out swinging for a resignation of Hastert. I told you what it would require for me to do that... PROOF... It is after all what you say you would need.

So what's the difference about what we're talking, except the contemptable double standard you have for Republicans vs. Democrats.

And for the record; I called you shameful for trying to suggest I was a drunk and an idiot. You DO NOT know me nor do you have proof of either of those things. I even apologized for a statement that seemed offensive. You haven't done that yet. But I doubt you will.

I would be willing to get rid of about 85% of the Senate and House of both parties and start all over. Imagine what we could get if we hundreds of new members who pledged to have real standards.

Also, there's scuttle that a democratic blogger is going to release a "list" of republican legislators and staff members who are gay in the next few days and according to the website I read it from (linked from a site Drudge linked to) to "affect the election."

Bottomline: The Republican Party does have people who are gay because they believe in the principles of small government and low taxes (even if that's not what's gone down lately). It doesn't mean they voted for the Gay Marriage Amendment or whatever, but does that mean their personal lives should be put out there to win an election?

I would find that repugnant if it happened to Democrats as well. If you're with me that as long as people aren't breaking the law and aren't being "socially acceptable (such as trying to hook up with kids, even if it's technically legal)" then we aren't as far apart as it seems we are.

I look forward to seeing if you'll at least apologize for the drunk/idiot comment, and see if you can agree that high standards of behavior are needed, and that if someone should resign, it should be proved they did wrong.

Wally sez: “You're great at missing my point.”

I’m great at a lot of things.

“I bring up others to point out that all the accusations that this is a wide spread pandemic of corruption in the Republican Party is just bunk and there's plenty of evidence to suggest sleaze and irresponsible leadership is everywhere.”

Except, it isn’t so. There actually IS a widespread pandemic of corruption in the Republican Party. I’m not saying the Democrats don’t have a few sleazeballs, too. We do. But your guys make ours look like a bunch of pikers! But, again, I’m not going to get dragged into a separate discussion. You’re trying to deflect attention away from the main issue. But then, that’s all you’ve got.

But quickly: what, honestly, is with your Pelosi obsession? Jefferson is already under investigation. He has been ever since his shenanigans were discovered. What, precisely, is Pelosi supposed to do? Lord. You are being intentionally thick.

Foley didn’t have BALLS to resign! He knew that the House leadership was aware of his proclivities for months (if not years) and let him keep his job. Shoot, they left him on the committee governing on-line exploitation of minors! How corrupt can you get? It was only after the MEDIA confronted him with the nasty e-mails and IM’s that he quit. Oooooh! So ballsy!

“Hastert had the BALLS to ask the FBI/DOJ to investigate the situation.”

Go back, once again, to the timeline. Hastert did nothing. He ignored the situation. And he lied to fellow House members, saying that he had taken care of the problem.

How bad was the corruption? How badly did the GOP want to keep that congressional seat? Get this: Reynolds, after learning about Foley’s e-mails, convinced Foley to run in Florida again and DONATED MONEY TO HIS CAMPAIGN. Honestly, how much corruption can you swallow?

“You wanted me to come out swinging for a resignation of Hastert. I told you what it would require for me to do that... PROOF... It is after all what you say you would need.”

What do I need to do to prove to you that Hastert knew of the e-mails and ignored them? Boehner says he knew. Reynolds says he knew. These are REPUBLICANS ratting on the House Speaker not Democrats. What more proof do you need?

“And for the record; I called you shameful for trying to suggest I was a drunk and an idiot.”

Actually, after I read the whacked-out, meandering, goofball posts you were leaving behind, I figured that the only explanation was that you were drunk. Apparently, that isn’t the case. You don’t drink. So if that isn’t the explanation.....what’s your excuse? How can you verbally vomit all over the keyboard the way you do without having booze to blame?

“I would be willing to get rid of about 85% of the Senate and House of both parties and start all over. Imagine what we could get if we hundreds of new members who pledged to have real standards.”

Hah! Just wait until November 7th, Wally. You’re about to get (part of) your wish.

“Also, there's scuttle that a democratic blogger is going to release a "list" of republican legislators and staff members who are gay in the next few days and according to the website I read it from (linked from a site Drudge linked to) to "affect the election."’

You believe everything you read on the Internets, do ya? But suppose it did happen. These guys have something to be ashamed of? Or do they just not want their conservative base to know that they sleep with “The Gentlemen from Virginia” in addition to their wives?

“Bottomline:”

Are you trying to be clever? “Bottom line”?

But look at THIS! “ The Republican Party does have people who are gay because they believe in the principles of small government and low taxes (even if that's not what's gone down lately).”

They believe in small government and low taxes so that makes them GAY? Explain yourself!

“It doesn't mean they voted for the Gay Marriage Amendment or whatever, but does that mean their personal lives should be put out there to win an election?”

If they are closeted homosexuals who are representing constituents who despise homosexuals, then they are hypocrites. Tell me: is it okay if I’m a closeted atheist but I don’t want my constituents to know that and I pretend to believe in God to get votes? Would that be okay in your book? Or is it dishonorable to lie to your constituents about anything? I will say this though: I’m not in favor necessarily of “outing” Republican homosexuals as a general rule. But if they are running on an agenda that is slanted against gays then yes, they should be revealed for the hypocrites they are.

And what is this “trying to hook up with kids, even if it's technically legal” crap? Listen to me loud and clear: IT IS NOT LEGAL, WALLY!!!!! STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE PEDOPHILE!

“I look forward to seeing if you'll at least apologize for the drunk/idiot comment”

Aw, Wally, if I knew you were such a delicate fellow, I would have been a lot nicer to you. Honest. I figured you were enured to the rough and tumble world of political boards and could take a few hits. You’re not. So I’m sorry I hurt your feelings.

Do I agree that “high standards of behavior are needed, and that if someone should resign, it should be proved they did wrong.”

I do agree. That's the entire point. Hastert DID WRONG. The proof of that statement is coming from the Republican side of the aisle. The Christian right is calling for Hastert’s head.

And you know what? Sooner or later, they’re going to get it.

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, it does. Hastert and the House leadership have known about Foley for TWO YEARS.

Enjoy:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/04/foley.ap/index.html

I knew you'd eventually say I was making excuses for a pedophile.

It must be fun to be an a**hole. You call people names and then when you're called out on it, you say it's because I can't understand what you're saying. Have you read your own admissions that you missed what people were saying.

You know DAMN WELL that Democrats are not above outing people for political gain. I'm sure Republicans would do it too. Yet you're in favor of that or at least was willing to overlook the charge because you're unwilling to acknowledge you'd destroy someone.

I simply cannot understand how hard it is to say that we are in agreement about what it takes to get someone to resign.

Unless you're a psychic, you do not know that Hastert DID WRONG. BY THE WAY... You said he'd be gone by the end of the week... wanna bet on that? How about if he doesn't, you apologize on this site for claiming falsely that he actively covered this up.

I AM, for the record, not a Christian right winger, who is opposed to the marriage amendment, who also happens to be gay. So, should I assume you know more about Foley's life or the life of a Republican.

I'm going to end this stupid discussion because it's clear you're unwilling to acknowledge:

a) Corruption is not a one party problem.
b) Covering up controversy is not a one
party problem.
c) People are innocent until PROVEN guilty
d) That you don't respect anyone who is a
Republican.

I hope for your sake your party does win, because if they don't, I'm sure we'll never hear from you again.

BTW ***Hat, my name is Will. Now go ahead and distort what I've said and then ignore the parts where you're rude and try to paint me as a raving lunatic.

Aw, now you’ve gone and hurt MY feelings.

“I knew you'd eventually say I was making excuses for a pedophile.”

Hey, bright eyes, I made that accusation YESTERDAY. When you said, “what's criminal about an adult talking to another consenting adult?” If that’s not an excuse for a pedophile like Foley, what is?

And then he starts with the name calling. How mean!

“It must be fun to be an a**hole.”

Well, it is interesting. I don’t know about “fun.”

“You call people names and then when you're called out on it, you say it's because I can't understand what you're saying.”

What other excuse do you have? You aren’t drunk, right?

“Have you read your own admissions that you missed what people were saying.”

Yeah, and I apologized for it, too. Dork.

“You know DAMN WELL that Democrats are not above outing people for political gain. I'm sure Republicans would do it too. Yet you're in favor of that or at least was willing to overlook the charge because you're unwilling to acknowledge you'd destroy someone.”

DESTROY someone? Jeez, talk about self-loathing! “Ooooh! Don’t tell my constituents I’m gay! It would DESTROY me!”

“I simply cannot understand how hard it is to say that we are in agreement about what it takes to get someone to resign.”

Because we aren’t. I’ve proved, over and over again, that Hastert knew about the e-mails for months, if not years, and did nothing. The proof I have came from REPUBLICANS. Yet that’s not good enough for you. I’ll ask for the eightieth time: What more proof do you need?

“Unless you're a psychic, you do not know that Hastert DID WRONG.”

Yes I do! Boehner, Reynolds, now Reynold’s ex-aide...they all say he knew and DID NOTHING.

“BY THE WAY... You said he'd be gone by the end of the week... wanna bet on that? How about if he doesn't, you apologize on this site for claiming falsely that he actively covered this up.”

What a maroon! I’m not going to make a bet where, if I lose, I then have to LIE. That’s the kind of bet only a Republican would make. He DID over this up. Prove that he didn’t! Show me ONE THING he did to try and solve this problem before last Friday. Go ahead! I double dog dare you!

“I AM, for the record, not a Christian right winger, who is opposed to the marriage amendment, who also happens to be gay. So, should I assume you know more about Foley's life or the life of a Republican.”

That was full of curliques, so I’m not quite sure what you’re saying. You are NOT a Christian right winger but you ARE opposed to gay marriage and happen to be gay? Or you are NOT any of those things? Try to write clearly and maybe I can understand you. But tell me, does being gay automatically give you secret powers into understanding Foley’s life?

“I'm going to end this stupid discussion...”

Bet you won’t.

“... because it's clear you're unwilling to acknowledge: a) Corruption is not a one party problem.”

Hey, dummy? I did that in my last post. Me: “I’m not saying the Democrats don’t have a few sleazeballs, too. We do.” Gee, you’re really ARE a little dim, aren’t you?

“b) Covering up controversy is not a one party problem.” In this case it is.

“c) People are innocent until PROVEN guilty.” Is Jefferson innocent until proven guilty? Because you said “Jefferson has frozen bribe money in his freezer and what more proof do you need for him? The evidence seems to be as much a slam dunk as it is with Foley.”

Hypocrite.

“d) That you don't respect anyone who is a Republican.”

You bet I do! I have quite a few Republican friends. You know why I like and respect them? Because they are just as disgusted with this Foley crap as I am and are demanding that Hastert resign. If you had any dignity, respect or morality, you’d do the same.

But you don’t.

“BTW ***Hat, my name is Will.”

Then why do you have such a weird, distorted, confusing screen name, Wally?

“Now go ahead and distort what I've said and then ignore the parts where you're rude and try to paint me as a raving lunatic.”

I don’t need to do that. You do just fine alllll by yourself.

And for the record, I address everything you say point by point. You NEVER do that. Because, kiddo: You can’t.

Where's the apology?

How about you just say it and not then call me dim?

I am not a stupid human being, if I'm guilty of anything, it's trying to NOT go line by line and explain how I see you being hypocritical.

You do what Americans hate. You say you apologize or you said this or that, but it's ALWAYS followed by a "but" and that "but" is usually some backhanded comment.

And I will call bullshit on the idea that wanting to keep your private life private (if it's not breaking the law... i.e. Foley being gay) is somehow self-loathing. According to most on Capitol Hill, everyone seemed to know. Heck, Mr. Beckel (Democrat talking head had the nerve to say Just because he's Gay Hastert should have paid more attention to Foley as if being Gay makes you a pedophile. I do believe you're honorable enough to not make that connection). Also, according to a news article from a Miami News Paper, it seems this isn't getting the traction people want and the article also said Foley had an 18 year relationship with a man.

I'm assuming a straight man having an affair wants to keep that private. Not against the law, but inappropriate. I'm just saying, wanting to keep things private because some people are homophobes (as there are in both parties) isn't a self-loathing thing.

So... let's recap.

Foley is innocent until provent guilty when/if he's charged.

Jefferson is innocent until provent guilty when/if he's charged (even though I think he has been, but I don't know for sure)

A thorough investigation of Hastert should be undertaken and if it's PROVEN he knew about the potentially illegal activities then he should resign. After all, why should Hastert be held to a high standard than the FBI in investigating Foley.

Anyone in leadership should be held to account if they cover up or not act when they should. But it must be proved. You agree with that right? (I'm assuming YOU believe that standard has been met with Hastert so we'll just have to agree to disagree but understand in principle we agree)

I appreciate you caring enough to call me names and trying to clarify your views even though I think you purposefully were trying to be demeaning. I was after I realized I was rude, was trying to figure out how we actually agreed.

Anyways... I'm not really a kid anymore.

And if you want to know about my "nickname" it's WA for Washington State, Will for my name, but my older brother knows I hate being called Willie so he added the I when I was creating an email account and then added YO because I used to say it all the time. So that's the story, even though you didnt ask.

Anyways...

This is interesting. It makes it sound like it was planned to happen when it happened.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2006/10/the-bogus-blog-behind-foleys-fall.php

Will (there, I’ll be nice and call you by your preferred name) sez: “Where's the apology? How about you just say it and not then call me dim?”

Oy. Look, if you’ll knock off making dim comments, I’ll refrain from highlighting them as such. It’s a two-way street, you know? But I’ll try to be nicer, okay?

“I am not a stupid human being, if I'm guilty of anything, it's trying to NOT go line by line and explain how I see you being hypocritical.”

How am I being hypocritical? Really. I’m asking flat-out.

“You do what Americans hate. You say you apologize or you said this or that, but it's ALWAYS followed by a "but" and that "but" is usually some backhanded comment.”

You mean like, “I’m sorry for what I did, but I’m an alcoholic and a priest abused me when I was a kid.”? You mean a lame-ass apology like that?

“And I will call bullshit on the idea that wanting to keep your private life private (if it's not breaking the law... i.e. Foley being gay) is somehow self-loathing.”

How about David Brock, former right-wing hack and self-loathing gay man who finally shed his evil right-wing cloak and shed a bright light on all the nasty Right Wing Conspiracy nuts? Or Jeff Gannon, GOP shill, who was softballing questions to President Chimpy from a fake news organization at the same time that he was advertising himself as a gay prostitute on line? Need more? I mean, Brock and Gannon weren’t breaking the law necessarily (though Gannon may have been), but isn’t their sexual orientation relevant when they are backing a regime that is so patently hostile to homosexuals?

“According to most on Capitol Hill, everyone seemed to know. Heck, Mr. Beckel (Democrat talking head had the nerve to say Just because he's Gay Hastert should have paid more attention to Foley as if being Gay makes you a pedophile. I do believe you're honorable enough to not make that connection).”

I certainly am. Which is why I am so disgusted by Pat Buchanan’s allegations that “there is a proclivity” toward child abuse among homosexuals. Beckel never said that, did he? In fact, if you look at the numbers, you’ll see that a vast majority of sex crimes against minors are perpetrated by heterosexuals.

“Also, according to a news article from a Miami News Paper, it seems this isn't getting the traction people want and the article also said Foley had an 18 year relationship with a man.”

Who cares?

“I'm assuming a straight man having an affair wants to keep that private. Not against the law, but inappropriate. I'm just saying, wanting to keep things private because some people are homophobes (as there are in both parties) isn't a self-loathing thing.”

As I said, anyone who assists in anti-gay Republican efforts and is, himself, a closeted homosexual should be revealed for the hypocrites he is. Otherwise, keep your secrets in the closet for all I care.

“So... let's recap.”

Let’s!

“Foley is innocent until provent guilty when/if he's charged.”

Nope. Foley is guilty and admittedly so.

“Jefferson is innocent until provent guilty when/if he's charged (even though I think he has been, but I don't know for sure).”

About time!

“A thorough investigation of Hastert should be undertaken and if it's PROVEN he knew about the potentially illegal activities then he should resign. After all, why should Hastert be held to a high standard than the FBI in investigating Foley.”

Because Hastert was (a) warned about these events as long ago as three years, (b) did little, if anything, about it, (c) did not report Foley’s activities to the committee that oversees the page program and (d) for the sake of keeping Foley’s seat in Congress, ignored the Foley issue and put the pages (plural) at risk.

“Anyone in leadership should be held to account if they cover up or not act when they should. But it must be proved. You agree with that right?”

Sure. But again, I’ll ask: What standard constitutes proof in your book? THREE Republicans have come forward to say that Hastert knew about Foley’s problem for months, if not years. What more do you need?

“I appreciate you caring enough to call me names and trying to clarify your views even though I think you purposefully were trying to be demeaning. I was after I realized I was rude, was trying to figure out how we actually agreed.”

Fair enough.

“Anyways... I'm not really a kid anymore.”

Me neither. It keeps me up at night.

“And if you want to know about my "nickname" (snip)....that's the story, even though you didnt ask.”

Actually I did. Thanks for illuminating me.